Vancouver’s Mayor, Ken Sim, is a real Bitcoin fanatic who’s doing his half to get Vancouver’s metropolis council in addition to its residents to see what he sees with regards to Bitcoin.
And his efforts are beginning to bear fruit.
On December 11, 2024, the Vancouver Metropolis Council greenlit a movement Mayor Sim ready to begin making Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
The movement directs metropolis workers to discover the concepts of Vancouver establishing a strategic bitcoin reserve in addition to accepting taxes and metropolis charges in bitcoin.
In my dialog with Mayor Sim, we mentioned the passing of this movement in addition to a few of his deeper philosophical ideas about Bitcoin.
We additionally touched on what Bitcoin adoption in Vancouver would seem like in an ideal world, his personal journey down the proverbial Bitcoin rabbit gap and why Bitcoin can deliver monetary hope to the residents of Vancouver at a time limit when many are struggling to make ends meet.
The Vancouver Metropolis Council just lately handed your movement to make Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
On a private stage, although, in case you might wave a magic wand and allow no matter stage of Bitcoin adoption you see slot in Vancouver, what would that seem like?
I’ve bought to offer you a caveat right here. These are my very own private views. We’ve a reasonably unbelievable crew on the Metropolis of Vancouver, and so they’ve been tasked to discover. So, it isn’t as if I can actually affect the crew and inform them “It’s a must to do that and that.”
In an ideal world, the very first thing we might do is add to a strategic reserve. The second factor could be permitting individuals to transact with bitcoin with out triggering capital positive factors tax occasions and to simply accept funds within the type of bitcoin. Tax regulation throughout not simply Canada, however within the U.S. and quite a lot of different jurisdictions, nonetheless hasn’t caught up, so each time you transact with bitcoin, there’s a capital positive factors tax payment, which could be very cumbersome.
The third factor is that we begin the dialog and we bust the myths round narratives like Bitcoin is unhealthy for the setting. That is all hogwash, proper? Bitcoin is definitely going to assist us save the setting.
Plus, it supplies us with an immutable file and it truly provides to a stage of transparency we have by no means seen within the historical past of humankind. Having that integrated into our methods could be nice.
You spoke about this course of of teaching individuals about Bitcoin on Natalie Brunell’s present. You stated you “bathe them with love and you then hit them with information.” Are you able to give an instance of what this seems like?
There’s quite a lot of resistance with Bitcoin, particularly because it pertains to its perceived results on the setting. Folks hear this narrative that it is unhealthy for the setting, and it is like, “Properly, wait a second…”
I am an environmentalist, and I do know that in case you drive organizations throughout the planet to do stuff that they are not incentivized to do, nothing’s going to occur. Whereas in case you incentivize them — in case you construct in a reward system — it’s wonderful.
So, what do we all know? Properly, we flare pure gasoline as a by-product of oil manufacturing, and if we truly seize that and repurpose it for Bitcoin mining, it’s truly good for the setting. Similar with capturing methane that seeps from the bottom.
Additionally, with different or inexperienced vitality sources, be it wind energy or solar energy, the place the economics usually do not pan out to construct these tasks, you present somebody with a assured buyer within the type of Bitcoin miners, and the economics work and this stuff get constructed. So, it is internet constructive for the setting.
There’s additionally this false narrative that nefarious issues occur with Bitcoin. That is rubbish, proper? Money is untraceable. With Bitcoin, we’re speaking about an immutable file the place you’ll be able to see each single transaction for the reason that starting of time and you may catch individuals on the on and off ramps.
A few of the narratives are literally the exact opposite of actuality, and so we have now to counter these narratives.
Based mostly on my expertise, it is easy to show somebody one thing, whereas it is so much tougher for individuals to unlearn, and we’re within the strategy of serving to individuals unlearn what they’ve discovered.
You’ve referred to Bitcoin as the best invention in human historical past. May you develop on that?
Our cash is damaged. Folks cannot use it to retailer their vitality into the longer term. We’re on this rinse and repeat cycle. In Ray Dalio’s e book The Altering World Order, he talks concerning the rise and fall of the Dutch empire, the rise and fall of the British empire, the rise and, as he places it, fall of the U.S. empire. For those who agree with Dalio’s perspective, the purpose is that the cash’s damaged.
We should not have a reserve forex that is ever lasted. We preserve repeating historical past. However Bitcoin modifications all that. As everyone knows, you’ll be able to’t mess with it, and you may’t manipulate it. It is a game-changer and once we lastly get onto the bitcoin commonplace — I feel it is a matter of when, not if — it will change how people work together with one another and the way nation states evolve.
You simply cited certainly one of Ray Dalio’s books, and I’ve heard you talk about the way you’ve additionally learn books like The Bitcoin Commonplace and Layered Cash. You’re additionally a pal of Jeff Sales space’s. With all of the studying you’ve finished and the conversations you’ve had with Jeff, did you find yourself having a lightbulb second with Bitcoin or was it extra of a gradual studying course of?
Properly, I had the alternative of the lightbulb second when my son Mitchell got here as much as me and stated “Dad, I need to purchase bitcoin.” And I used to be like, “You contact that shit, and I will punch you within the throat.” Clearly, I wasn’t going to do this.
Then, I began seeing extra of it and had conversations with Jeff. So, I began to look into it, learn a bunch about it and went to a few conferences. My journey was similar to quite a lot of different individuals’s. I used to be utterly towards it after which I warmed as much as it and finally grew to become an evangelist.
I am unable to level to anyone level the place it was like, “Wow, there you go” and I went 180 levels the opposite means. I do keep in mind although, I made my first $500 buy of bitcoin on November the 14th, 2020. The explanation it took me so lengthy was I needed to discover ways to use the app on which I purchased the bitcoin. It was all clunky — only a ache within the butt.
However I do not forget that day, as a result of once I lastly purchased it I assumed, “Did I miss out?” I feel I purchased it at like 16 or 17 grand and it had run from like seven or eight grand the month earlier than. I used to be like, “Did I miss it?” I keep in mind Jeff saying, “No, you’re nonetheless tremendous early; we’re all nonetheless tremendous early.”
You’ve talked about how unaffordable housing in Vancouver is. Does bitcoin repair this?
Sure. Let me provide you with an instance. We’ve a small studio rental up in Whistler (a city north of Vancouver). Once we purchased it, it will have value 17.2 bitcoin. That is about 4 years in the past. When it comes to {dollars}, the property is up 36%, however when it comes to bitcoin, it is down one thing like 85%. As of in the present day, it prices like 3.3 bitcoin to purchase it.
By the way in which, I am not giving funding recommendation. I am simply speaking a couple of theoretical, if this performs out the way it might. If sooner or later within the not so distant future, you can purchase a home in Vancouver for a bitcoin, what which means is you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for about US$106,000 or about CA$150,000 in case you purchased a bitcoin in the present day.
I am not telling individuals to take out a mortgage to purchase bitcoin — very removed from it. Go search monetary recommendation. However in case you imagine bitcoin’s worth will proceed to understand, you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for CA$150,000 within the close to future by shopping for a bitcoin proper now.
You’ve got introduced Bitcoin, a taboo topic, into the fold as Mayor of Vancouver, and also you’ve stated that doing so would possibly result in your not getting re-elected. Have you ever ever thought of that the alternative is likely to be true, that possibly by embracing Bitcoin the individuals of Vancouver will need to re-elect you?
I am not too involved about that. I’ve no need to be a premier or prime minister. I am not a politician, though I am sitting on this position, which I actually honor, worth and take very significantly. However the purpose was by no means to be fashionable. The purpose was by no means to get re-elected. The purpose was to do what I believed is correct for the way forward for the Metropolis of Vancouver.
And so I could not sit again any longer and ignore this as a result of I really imagine that this units the town up for the subsequent hundred years. Am I proper? We do not know, however we have now a reasonably good feeling, and I really imagine in it.
I feel voters, residents — it would not matter what aspect of the political spectrum you sit on — are sick of politicians who do stuff simply to get re-elected. They need individuals to do what they imagine is correct, and I imagine that is proper. If we do not get re-elected due to it, I can personally maintain my head up excessive and say, “You realize what? We caught to our values and we did what’s proper.” If it really works out, nice. I truly suppose it will work out, although.
It looks like a progressive metropolis like Vancouver — the primary metropolis in Canada to have a Bitcoin ATM — must be in favor of Bitcoin. Nevertheless, the earlier mayor tried to ban Bitcoin ATMs within the metropolis. Was there a response from the Vancouver group when the mayor did this?
I did not comply with it too carefully on the time, so I do not know. I am unable to touch upon it. What I can touch upon is we do have quite a lot of politicians who will make coverage up primarily based on advantage signaling versus knowledge. We’re an information pushed administration, and we care concerning the future prosperity of our metropolis.
I feel the excellence right here is we select to have essentially the most impression — we’re extra involved concerning the steak than the sizzle. If somebody could make an argument on why this can be a unhealthy concept primarily based on knowledge, we’ll hearken to it. We would have it flawed, however I can inform you nobody has been capable of assault our Bitcoin stance with knowledge.
Bitcoin could be sort of troublesome to make use of technically. So, as an example, in an ideal world, possibly Bitcoin turns into authorized tender in Vancouver sooner or later, or if there’s simply larger adoption of it, do you are concerned concerning the technical difficulties related to utilizing Bitcoin? Would the Vancouver metropolis authorities ever become involved in educating its Vancouver residents about Bitcoin?
It isn’t one of many core companies we offer as a metropolis, so I do not see us happening the academic rabbit gap. We’ll depart it as much as different consultants.
If the business makes Bitcoin less complicated to make use of, so many extra teams and people will simply hop on the bandwagon. And it is coming as a result of there are lots of people engaged on this proper now.
I am not an professional, however once I, once I hear about among the issues which are taking place on Layer 2s and the Lightning Community, I see a future the place that is seamless. When individuals go right into a Walgreens and so they purchase a sweet bar, they received’t take into consideration how they’re paying with Bitcoin. All of the plumbing beneath will occur with out them understanding, and it will revolutionize the planet.
You’ve got finished a handful of interviews on this subject to this point. Is there something that we within the media haven’t requested you but that you simply’d like to debate or level out?
Sure, I’d wish to make a normal name out and never only for the town of Vancouver. It is for each single metropolis and province and state and jurisdiction and canton, and nation on the planet.
We’ve to get the schooling on the market, which continues to be a tough problem. Some individuals within the media have made the remark that what we’re doing proper now could be extra advantage signaling, as a result of we have now the hope of creating this occur. That is incorrect, although.
We’d like Bitcoin supporters to begin pumping the true narrative of why bitcoin is a sound monetary asset. It is the very best performing asset within the final 16 years on the planet. And we’re not merchants, so in case you’re not seeking to day commerce, all the volatility would not matter.
We have to begin getting that narrative out, however not from me, from the group. We have to let our elected officers know this as a result of they don’t seem to be going to do something till individuals hit them with knowledge and inform our legislators that they need this.
We’re doing this as a result of we imagine in it. We need to get forward of it. We need to arrange the town for the subsequent 100 years, and that is why we’re prepared to take political threat to do that. However we want assist. So, in case your viewers might help us push that narrative with our provincial authorities and of their jurisdictions, as effectively, that may be nice.
If individuals come onboard and see how bitcoin can cut back among the monetary stress of their lives, do you suppose Vancouver transforms right into a pro-Bitcoin metropolis comparatively shortly?
Sure.
I’m going again to my sister-in-law, who if she watches the video she’s gonna punch me within the face. About 13 years in the past, she was afraid of getting an iPhone. She did not perceive the expertise. It was a psychological block.
Then, she jumped on the bandwagon like everybody else, as a result of all her buddies had iPhones. It is ridiculous now to suppose that individuals have been afraid of iPhones, proper?
Will Bitcoin give us hope? Completely.
I’m going again to the Metropolis of Vancouver and why that is so necessary. The Metropolis of Vancouver exists in the identical circumstances as everybody else does. Whereas individuals cannot afford a house or they’re battling groceries, we have now a funds.
We’ve to rent cops, firefighters, engineers, and we’re residing in an setting the place our forex is getting debased and we will not improve taxes at a charge that retains up with that. We do not need to minimize companies, and so Bitcoin provides us hope the place we are able to repair our monetary state, our stability sheet.
And that may truly assist us run this metropolis for the subsequent hundred years. I feel when individuals perceive Bitcoin and so they begin to undertake it, they are going to have hope, as effectively, as a result of they are going to notice their buying energy goes up, which is a good factor.
